The second wall in the jumping tutorial is too tall to jump through. It looks like I'm supposed to jump onto a crate first, but that doesn't work either.
This game was pretty awesome to play. It does need a lot of work though but it has so much potential to be a Jet Set Radio spiritual successor.
1. The grinding in the game needs to potentially have bigger collisions because trying to grind on some of the rails were hard to do due to how slim the collision boxes are.
2. The controls need to be refined a bit more especially on keyboard and mouse. I tryed on keyboard and mouse at first and it just wouldn't let me get past the language select so I just ended up using a controller which was fine. After a few minutes I got used to the controls in the game.
3. There needs to be more control over the character. Two examples of this is braking and in air control. Braking the character was very hard to do if you has a lot of momemtum which then you would just end up in a wall trying to get out. I did figure out that you could turn the stick 90 degrees to make the character break but it felt clunky. Next was in air control. The player had very limited in air control over the character which made it hard to know exactly where you wanted the character to go. There needs to be a bit of in air control for the player so that they have an easier time of comboing those grinds together but not so much that the player can turn and easily control the character in the air. Just a small adjustment can make all of the difference.
4. Not a big deal but the NPC character models need to be fleshed out more. I know that they will probably be fleshed out in upcoming updates to the game but they are mostly just basic.
5. I don't mention this in my video because I didn't know about it till after I recorded and had a play around more with the game but the pause menu didn't work for me when I tried to select the options in the menu. It would allow me to change tabs but when I pressed A to select it would just make the character jump and back out of the menu. Also, then the character is facing the camera, the menu appears behind the character which makes impossible to see the menu without turning the character around.
I go into more detail in my video but even though this is a very early access, it has a lot of potential. Maybe even the potential to be a kick starter project rather than an itch.io and patreon because it seems like you have really put thought into this game which is not typical of an itch.io game. Also, I want to see more features in the game like in the screenshots and I go into what features I feel the game could do more with. They are mostly mid development features like being able to do more tricks with the character ect but its just a thought. I hope to see a lot more of this game and I hope you don't take the criticism in a bad way because I do want you to do well in the development of this game because it has so much potential. Good luck with your journey and I hope to hear your thoughts on what I have reviewed so far. If you want anyone to test out the game and maybe have some input into the game then feel free to e-mail me. The e-mail is on my channel.
Wow thanks for playing, recording, and giving useful feedback!
1. We will tweak both the grinding collisions width and air control, we don't want this to be too easy neither but maybe right now it is adjusted to our own level, (people who plays the game everyday to work on it) making it very hard to normal new players.
2. Yes, the keyboard and mouse was a bit neglected and it is my own fault. I did not and still don't have a clear vision on how to make it feel good, but I'll keep thinking on what I can do about that.
3. Well, I did put this secret input Lt+Rt (rmb+lmb) when going faster than 15km/h. However I think braking by orienting yourself 90 degrees is the real way to go, both in style and game feel, but maybe this is more a subjective opinion than I thought. I will also increase slightly air control, as mentionned on 1. Thanks for your input there. :)
4. Yeah, we'll work on that. Tiny team, big project, no fundings, but we'll make it. :)
5. Yes you found that too. This is the unfinished Drone menu. The camera is actually a drone following you everywhere that you can customize and upgrade. The code is ready but the features aren't implemented yet. I feel a bit sorry to put so much unfinished things, but as the message on the bottom of the screen reads, everything is still work in progress. I'll fix that soon.
In any case, thank you for the help, I welcome all criticism that explains why, like the ones you give. It is very helpful. ;)
I know its still a very early demo of the game which is why I didn't go too hard in my review of the game. Most of the tweaks are just thoughts I had while playing the game and being a game developer myself and having been to college to train as a game developer, these are just a few tweaks I thought of coming from a developers and a players point of view. The game has potential but it is still a long way from the final product. Hope it all goes well in the future for you and your team.
great concept. poor execution. saying xbox 360 gamepad recommended is an understatement. there is absolutely no support for anything else. no keyboard, no ps4 controller, nothing. I do not have an xbox 360 controller. it made this extremely difficult to play. impossible, actually. i could not complete the tutorial. from the little gameplay i experienced, the grinding rail width needs to be wider. maybe double or triple. as it is, it is extremely hard to hit them. also, there needs to be more in air control. the game looks nice. the music is great and would really enhance the game if you could keep your momentum up. the old guy who says "yo yo yo" is really cringe-y.
Edit: I just hopped over to the Dev's website. this game looks a lot more playable on the xbox controller, but i would add support for keyboard first, and then other controllers second. This game shows lots of promise. I really like the Dev. The introduction video looks great. im going to keep my eye on this game. maybe even support it if it seems to go in the right direction.
agreed im able to kinda work out the controls using the unity startup thing but appart from that its an amazing game just wish i could play it better ya know do it justice
Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the bad experience, I will borrow a PS4 controller and work on it. I will also try to optimize the keyboard-mouse input. Your post is very helpful although I hope it didn't ruined your opinion on my game forever.
There's a ton of work to do on it, but I'm a hard worker, I hope you'll appreciate future updates as I improve everything.
(Prior to downloading and playing, will edit/reply with post-play thoughts) So based on the description and demo vid (especially the momentum-based movement and style/weight of the air-based movement), it would appear to be a spiritual succesor to Jet Set Radio (or better yet my faveorite game Jet Set Radio Future). Meaning, I have my hopes up!
First of all, despite what others have said the demo is very playable on keyboard- you just have to set up custom controls in the launcher. I'll admit though, the movement control system is literally tenky, as in you move forwards or backwards in relation to the direction you're aiming. While I do agree that it's the most technically accurate way to mimic rollerblading (at least in theory), there's a small matter of momentum and directional movement based on the tank-style. To make sense, when rollerblading in a straight line you start off with a small boost of acceleration (your first step and the push that follows), bringing you up to at least 50% of your average speed in the first few seconds. Also, when turning your forward momentum is redirected (not cancelled out for momentum in the new direction), meaning that a turn can actually speed you up depending on the angle. I think specifically it's the turning and forward/backward control style that (while I was able to get used to) would frusterate the average player.
To fix this, I recommend that the joystick (or in my case 'wasd') control not only the direction, but also the camera and forward push, and swap the now unused forward button for a 180/90 degree character rotation, both for tricks and movement tweaking. Or just "rotate right/left on the spot" buttons.
Personally I'd recommend that the camera follow behind the player and "lock on" to within 15-20 degrees, and have a seperate button you hit to unlock it (so you can look around without moving as an option, instead of the default), and a double-tap to recenter it. Then there's the jump, which is a very typical demo-game jump. I presume it's a placeholder until you can get a sort of tap/hold -> short hop/high jumpflip system working.
Again, very playable and I had fun, even collected 4 badges before I had to start fighting the momentum and inertia. Also, I saw a few people complain that the rails are "too thin"- I can see why they'd say this, but with the tweaks to the movement system it won't be much of an issue.
I have hope for this game, and eagerly await the next demo version!
Thank you for your feedback! I'm sorry in advance for the long answer, you don't have to read everything if this bores you. You can just go all the way down and just read the TLDR. :P
I understand the point of view about reverting all the controls to existing layout such as Jet Set Radio or Tony Hawk in order to get into a familiar way of playing. On the other hand there is 2 reasons I'm not doing that.
First, well, making the game play and feel the same way as another kind of destroy the point of making a new game with a new IP and a new gameplay that I believe is better for roller skating while needs a little time to get used to. On the other hand, I'm all for a new THPS or JSR to be made!
Now the second reason is yet to come : the overall design for this specific control mapping is not showing nor complete yet, and I am aware that one way or another, I will need to harmonize a player's positive experience, friendly learning curve, and solid understanding of the control layout, all with level design. Not an easy task.
Let me elaborate the design: the triggers are used to skate forward or backward. You usually see that kind of input mapping in driving simulations, like on cars, tanks, or boats. Somehow I find it even more legitimate to have this in a roller skating game. You see, in driving games, 90% of the time, you'll be pressing the right trigger, braking or driving backward just happens less frequently. In Neon Tail, going backward goes exactly as fast as going forward, you just got the direction reversed. So what's the point of going backward since it's harder to control? Well performing combos of course. So there's a high probability that new players will be pressing right trigger most of the time. But over time with the combo system, I expect players to be switching between forward and backward skating all the time, in order to perform combos. The more combos you perform in the streets under the awestruck gazes of pedestrians, the more reputation you will gain. The more reputation you have, the more things you can do, but this is another subject. The point is, there's an ongoing incentive to perform combos all the time.
Right now the combo system is yet to be done. I will create a list of combos, that are fixed orders of actions, each with a different amount of reputation point gain. For example, a combo named 180 grind to grind would be performed by being grinding in the first place, jumping, turning around then landing on rails again. Each character will have their own set of combos. Skating backward will usually be more rewarded than the forward counterpart, to balance the difficulty of having the controls inverted. I think this system might prove good enough to keep the players performing combos as much as they can, while make use of this new control layout in a good , challenging and fun way. You can see that playing this way making use of the separated input of Lt and Rt all the time makes sense. Although the worst thing a player can do is to never release Rt, and this is where I'll need to craft good level design and tutorial.
The left stick is used to rotate the character toward a direction. Do take note that I'm separating the action of rotation and the final direction. Whenever the player uses the left stick, a blue arrow will show the direct input of the player, putting a visual to the player's intention. Depending on the alignment of the roller blades, the direction in which the player is moving, its speed, the character's weight and the gravity, physics will decide how the character will act while trying to go toward the direction of the player's input. Our main character is quite light and agile so it is almost unnoticeable at first. But give her more speed, or more weight, and the difference will be felt. This physics based control makes it even more important for the player to play with both trigger's analogic input with subtlety and skills and that is where I think the fun resides in this control layout.
TLDR : I think the control mapping right now feels good but is very new. I understand people who wants a new Jet Set Radio or THPS will just want exactly that, but I'm not making a sequel of those very good games. I have plans of my own and if you give me a chance I hope it will prove to be a positive experience in the end.
So, I went into this pretty blind but after taking a closer look at the screenshot here it seems like a lot of my criticisms are already in the works! That being said, for a game about movement, you've got a solid foundation but a lot of little things pile up to make it all a but unwieldy. The sense of momentum is great but it can be hard to change your direction quickly, the air control is really minimal, or at least it feels that way, and the margin of error to attach to rails is really small for how quickly you're always moving. There's some solid stuff here and I'm looking forward to later builds!
Thanks for playing! We actually learned quite a lot watching your video, we will fix the bugs, and try to design a clearer and smarter tutorial. We need to make the player understand how going along with the physics instead of against it is how the game will provide the player the best sensations. I did made a video a long time ago on the game's prototype to explain this (link below), but I think I will need to create a better tutorial for the players to take it in. I don't intend to copy Tony Hawk's games skating system, as I have very different designs in mind for later. I do like THPS a lot though! Anyway, pressing X near the spheres hit them, the fact that you missed the message entirely shows how bad our tutorials are. Your video helps a lot, we'll try to fix all the problems! Thanks again!
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Beautiful graphics, looks a lot like sunset overdrive!
I like it. Very beautiful graphics.
Looks great, but it's 3:39 AM and I should really sleep; might play it tomorrow.
Lol
Mkay, I've had some sleep. It's time to download this and hope my graphics card can handle it. XD
The second wall in the jumping tutorial is too tall to jump through. It looks like I'm supposed to jump onto a crate first, but that doesn't work either.
Sorry I should add a message saying the longer you press the higher you go, taking a little momentum helps too. Will add that on the next update.
Thanks for the kind words! Your quirks have been noted, I'll see what I can do to improve those points, thanks for the feedbacks!
Great idea, but the controls still need some work. It feels very floaty.
This game was pretty awesome to play. It does need a lot of work though but it has so much potential to be a Jet Set Radio spiritual successor.
1. The grinding in the game needs to potentially have bigger collisions because trying to grind on some of the rails were hard to do due to how slim the collision boxes are.
2. The controls need to be refined a bit more especially on keyboard and mouse. I tryed on keyboard and mouse at first and it just wouldn't let me get past the language select so I just ended up using a controller which was fine. After a few minutes I got used to the controls in the game.
3. There needs to be more control over the character. Two examples of this is braking and in air control. Braking the character was very hard to do if you has a lot of momemtum which then you would just end up in a wall trying to get out. I did figure out that you could turn the stick 90 degrees to make the character break but it felt clunky. Next was in air control. The player had very limited in air control over the character which made it hard to know exactly where you wanted the character to go. There needs to be a bit of in air control for the player so that they have an easier time of comboing those grinds together but not so much that the player can turn and easily control the character in the air. Just a small adjustment can make all of the difference.
4. Not a big deal but the NPC character models need to be fleshed out more. I know that they will probably be fleshed out in upcoming updates to the game but they are mostly just basic.
5. I don't mention this in my video because I didn't know about it till after I recorded and had a play around more with the game but the pause menu didn't work for me when I tried to select the options in the menu. It would allow me to change tabs but when I pressed A to select it would just make the character jump and back out of the menu. Also, then the character is facing the camera, the menu appears behind the character which makes impossible to see the menu without turning the character around.
I go into more detail in my video but even though this is a very early access, it has a lot of potential. Maybe even the potential to be a kick starter project rather than an itch.io and patreon because it seems like you have really put thought into this game which is not typical of an itch.io game. Also, I want to see more features in the game like in the screenshots and I go into what features I feel the game could do more with. They are mostly mid development features like being able to do more tricks with the character ect but its just a thought. I hope to see a lot more of this game and I hope you don't take the criticism in a bad way because I do want you to do well in the development of this game because it has so much potential. Good luck with your journey and I hope to hear your thoughts on what I have reviewed so far. If you want anyone to test out the game and maybe have some input into the game then feel free to e-mail me. The e-mail is on my channel.
Wow thanks for playing, recording, and giving useful feedback!
1. We will tweak both the grinding collisions width and air control, we don't want this to be too easy neither but maybe right now it is adjusted to our own level, (people who plays the game everyday to work on it) making it very hard to normal new players.
2. Yes, the keyboard and mouse was a bit neglected and it is my own fault. I did not and still don't have a clear vision on how to make it feel good, but I'll keep thinking on what I can do about that.
3. Well, I did put this secret input Lt+Rt (rmb+lmb) when going faster than 15km/h. However I think braking by orienting yourself 90 degrees is the real way to go, both in style and game feel, but maybe this is more a subjective opinion than I thought. I will also increase slightly air control, as mentionned on 1. Thanks for your input there. :)
4. Yeah, we'll work on that. Tiny team, big project, no fundings, but we'll make it. :)
5. Yes you found that too. This is the unfinished Drone menu. The camera is actually a drone following you everywhere that you can customize and upgrade. The code is ready but the features aren't implemented yet. I feel a bit sorry to put so much unfinished things, but as the message on the bottom of the screen reads, everything is still work in progress. I'll fix that soon.
In any case, thank you for the help, I welcome all criticism that explains why, like the ones you give. It is very helpful. ;)
I know its still a very early demo of the game which is why I didn't go too hard in my review of the game. Most of the tweaks are just thoughts I had while playing the game and being a game developer myself and having been to college to train as a game developer, these are just a few tweaks I thought of coming from a developers and a players point of view. The game has potential but it is still a long way from the final product. Hope it all goes well in the future for you and your team.
I really enjoyed this! Remided me of my childhood playing Jet Set. Keep up the amazing work!
Yooo, I am hyped for a another skating game after growing up with Jet Set Radio! Ran through the demo on keyboard and had a blast.
The controls *were* a little weird to get used to, but after a few minutes I had the basics down and bombed up and down the course.
love the game but! needs better keyboard controls!
Haha thanks for playing and recording, here have my sub! :)
I'll see what I can do about the keyboard mouse controls. ;)
thank you! i loved the game it was just difficult to play with the current controls!
is this for 64 bit computers?
great concept. poor execution. saying xbox 360 gamepad recommended is an understatement. there is absolutely no support for anything else. no keyboard, no ps4 controller, nothing. I do not have an xbox 360 controller. it made this extremely difficult to play. impossible, actually. i could not complete the tutorial. from the little gameplay i experienced, the grinding rail width needs to be wider. maybe double or triple. as it is, it is extremely hard to hit them. also, there needs to be more in air control. the game looks nice. the music is great and would really enhance the game if you could keep your momentum up. the old guy who says "yo yo yo" is really cringe-y.
Edit: I just hopped over to the Dev's website. this game looks a lot more playable on the xbox controller, but i would add support for keyboard first, and then other controllers second. This game shows lots of promise. I really like the Dev. The introduction video looks great. im going to keep my eye on this game. maybe even support it if it seems to go in the right direction.
agreed im able to kinda work out the controls using the unity startup thing but appart from that its an amazing game just wish i could play it better ya know do it justice
Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the bad experience, I will borrow a PS4 controller and work on it. I will also try to optimize the keyboard-mouse input. Your post is very helpful although I hope it didn't ruined your opinion on my game forever.
There's a ton of work to do on it, but I'm a hard worker, I hope you'll appreciate future updates as I improve everything.
No, sorry, we don't have a mac to build and debug with... :/
(Prior to downloading and playing, will edit/reply with post-play thoughts) So based on the description and demo vid (especially the momentum-based movement and style/weight of the air-based movement), it would appear to be a spiritual succesor to Jet Set Radio (or better yet my faveorite game Jet Set Radio Future). Meaning, I have my hopes up!
Hope you'll have fun playing this demo, it is still all a work in progress, so we'll work hard to improve it all the way! :)
First of all, despite what others have said the demo is very playable on keyboard- you just have to set up custom controls in the launcher. I'll admit though, the movement control system is literally tenky, as in you move forwards or backwards in relation to the direction you're aiming. While I do agree that it's the most technically accurate way to mimic rollerblading (at least in theory), there's a small matter of momentum and directional movement based on the tank-style. To make sense, when rollerblading in a straight line you start off with a small boost of acceleration (your first step and the push that follows), bringing you up to at least 50% of your average speed in the first few seconds. Also, when turning your forward momentum is redirected (not cancelled out for momentum in the new direction), meaning that a turn can actually speed you up depending on the angle. I think specifically it's the turning and forward/backward control style that (while I was able to get used to) would frusterate the average player.
To fix this, I recommend that the joystick (or in my case 'wasd') control not only the direction, but also the camera and forward push, and swap the now unused forward button for a 180/90 degree character rotation, both for tricks and movement tweaking. Or just "rotate right/left on the spot" buttons.
Personally I'd recommend that the camera follow behind the player and "lock on" to within 15-20 degrees, and have a seperate button you hit to unlock it (so you can look around without moving as an option, instead of the default), and a double-tap to recenter it.
Then there's the jump, which is a very typical demo-game jump. I presume it's a placeholder until you can get a sort of tap/hold -> short hop/high jumpflip system working.
Again, very playable and I had fun, even collected 4 badges before I had to start fighting the momentum and inertia. Also, I saw a few people complain that the rails are "too thin"- I can see why they'd say this, but with the tweaks to the movement system it won't be much of an issue.
I have hope for this game, and eagerly await the next demo version!
Thank you for your feedback! I'm sorry in advance for the long answer, you don't have to read everything if this bores you. You can just go all the way down and just read the TLDR. :P
I understand the point of view about reverting all the controls to existing layout such as Jet Set Radio or Tony Hawk in order to get into a familiar way of playing. On the other hand there is 2 reasons I'm not doing that.
First, well, making the game play and feel the same way as another kind of destroy the point of making a new game with a new IP and a new gameplay that I believe is better for roller skating while needs a little time to get used to. On the other hand, I'm all for a new THPS or JSR to be made!
Now the second reason is yet to come : the overall design for this specific control mapping is not showing nor complete yet, and I am aware that one way or another, I will need to harmonize a player's positive experience, friendly learning curve, and solid understanding of the control layout, all with level design. Not an easy task.
Let me elaborate the design: the triggers are used to skate forward or backward. You usually see that kind of input mapping in driving simulations, like on cars, tanks, or boats.
Somehow I find it even more legitimate to have this in a roller skating game. You see, in driving games, 90% of the time, you'll be pressing the right trigger, braking or driving backward just happens less frequently.
In Neon Tail, going backward goes exactly as fast as going forward, you just got the direction reversed. So what's the point of going backward since it's harder to control? Well performing combos of course. So there's a high probability that new players will be pressing right trigger most of the time. But over time with the combo system, I expect players to be switching between forward and backward skating all the time, in order to perform combos.
The more combos you perform in the streets under the awestruck gazes of pedestrians, the more reputation you will gain.
The more reputation you have, the more things you can do, but this is another subject. The point is, there's an ongoing incentive to perform combos all the time.
Right now the combo system is yet to be done.
I will create a list of combos, that are fixed orders of actions, each with a different amount of reputation point gain. For example, a combo named 180 grind to grind would be performed by being grinding in the first place, jumping, turning around then landing on rails again. Each character will have their own set of combos.
Skating backward will usually be more rewarded than the forward counterpart, to balance the difficulty of having the controls inverted.
I think this system might prove good enough to keep the players performing combos as much as they can, while make use of this new control layout in a good , challenging and fun way. You can see that playing this way making use of the separated input of Lt and Rt all the time makes sense. Although the worst thing a player can do is to never release Rt, and this is where I'll need to craft good level design and tutorial.
The left stick is used to rotate the character toward a direction. Do take note that I'm separating the action of rotation and the final direction.
Whenever the player uses the left stick, a blue arrow will show the direct input of the player, putting a visual to the player's intention.
Depending on the alignment of the roller blades, the direction in which the player is moving, its speed, the character's weight and the gravity, physics will decide how the character will act while trying to go toward the direction of the player's input.
Our main character is quite light and agile so it is almost unnoticeable at first. But give her more speed, or more weight, and the difference will be felt. This physics based control makes it even more important for the player to play with both trigger's analogic input with subtlety and skills and that is where I think the fun resides in this control layout.
TLDR : I think the control mapping right now feels good but is very new. I understand people who wants a new Jet Set Radio or THPS will just want exactly that, but I'm not making a sequel of those very good games. I have plans of my own and if you give me a chance I hope it will prove to be a positive experience in the end.
So, I went into this pretty blind but after taking a closer look at the screenshot here it seems like a lot of my criticisms are already in the works! That being said, for a game about movement, you've got a solid foundation but a lot of little things pile up to make it all a but unwieldy. The sense of momentum is great but it can be hard to change your direction quickly, the air control is really minimal, or at least it feels that way, and the margin of error to attach to rails is really small for how quickly you're always moving. There's some solid stuff here and I'm looking forward to later builds!
Thanks for playing! We actually learned quite a lot watching your video, we will fix the bugs, and try to design a clearer and smarter tutorial. We need to make the player understand how going along with the physics instead of against it is how the game will provide the player the best sensations. I did made a video a long time ago on the game's prototype to explain this (link below), but I think I will need to create a better tutorial for the players to take it in. I don't intend to copy Tony Hawk's games skating system, as I have very different designs in mind for later. I do like THPS a lot though! Anyway, pressing X near the spheres hit them, the fact that you missed the message entirely shows how bad our tutorials are. Your video helps a lot, we'll try to fix all the problems! Thanks again!